Adventures in Model Railroading with CWRailman - CWRailman Adventures in Model Railroading

CWRailman
Adventures in Model Railroading

Testing 24 Volt Nichibo 15 x 20 x 28mm Long Shaft Motor from Jameco

3/9/2017

Today we took delivery of four 24volt Nichibo 15x20x28mm motors from Jameco Electronics. Our motors were procured through a Jameco Ebay sale which listed a set of 4 motors for $5.96 plus $4.00 shipping. However I checked and they had the same motors item #2188836 listed for sale on their WEB site. The long 2.0mm x 25mm long shaft on this motor is what intrigued us as we have had numerous locomotives that require a long shaft such as the PFM Benson Shay which we showed some time ago on our Projects page remotored with a NWSL 1620 motor. We used that motor because the shaft was long enough to allow the motor to fit into the cab. Now however, we suspect that this flat can motor might be better suited for that installation.

Our shipment of four motors arrived quickly and was well packed. We strapped one of the motors into our PFM/United UP 2-8-0 chassis and gave it a spin. The gearbox is an old United 40:1 that has not seen lube in way to many years and is bone dry. The suspension springs are also not yet installed so the gearbox can float up and down. We did not spare any expense in our mounting technique and used one of the few rubber bands we could find that was still pliable enough to hold together without breaking.

Using an old MRC power pack, the motor started the drivers at 3.5 volts but we then backed the voltage down to 2.5 volts and it kept the drivers spinning smoothly. About 7 volts established a rotation that would be about as high as anyone would want. Check out THIS VIDEO to see a brief demonstration of this motor in action.

It’s time we get back to the shops and dust off some of our projects!

CWRailman

Purchasing a PFM V&T 4-4-0 off Ebay

1/5/2015

Among the numerous projects to come out of the California Western Locomotive and Car Repair Shops in 2013 were a remotored Mantua’s General 4-4-0, a remotored Bachman Jupiter 4-4-0, a remotored Rivarossi ATSF 4-4-0 and a Pocher 4-4-0. Based on the number of guests to our WEB site who reviewed those projects and continue to do so we can safely say that those projects were the most popular to have ever come out of our shops.

After those projects were shown on this WEB site we received numerous emails asking whether these techniques could be applied to various brass locomotives of similar configuration. We assumed they could work however before offering any absolute advice we like to confirm the information we hand out so not to be misleading anyone. So….. between our other commitments, we started to search for a reasonably priced brass 4-4-0 to which we would apply the same techniques. Well, it appears that brass 4-4-0 locomotives representative of the 1880 era are relatively popular and during the time periods we conducted our search we were not able to come up with a “reasonably priced” model in good condition. We came close to a acquiring a few, some local and some on the Internet but it always seemed that someone else wanted them a bit more than we did. While we searched for an operational 4-4-0, what we finally procured from an Ebay seller was a somewhat rough, non functioning PFM/United V&T 4-4-0.

(Click on image for a larger version.)

Here is how the model was shipped. Securely packed in a USPS box and well protected. The listing had noted that there was no original box.

Note the metal shavings near the wheel. We believe this was caused by the universal coupling on the end of the input shaft to the worm, scraping up against the metal weight. Drivers were noticeably dirty. How did electrons ever get through that coating of goop.

With the chassis removed this shows the metal shavings which have collected directly over the worm. As noted, it appears that the set screw holding the brass metal coupling on the end of the input shaft had been rubbing up against the end of the boiler weight under the cab but how the shavings traveled forward to the area above the worm is a mystery.

The insulated draw bar pin on the tender had broken off so someone installed it loosely from the top. In that position it rubbed against the flexible tubing. This will require repair. When we see such crude attempts at repair we often wonder “what were they thinking”? Note the upper corner of the tender is missing as is one of the tender steps. We also noted that the smoke stack was off center and the wind deflector at the top of the stack was bent.

Upon disassembly we inspected every part and made some notes of what needs to be replaced or repaired. We then inserted a paper towel into one of the plastic pencil cases we had purchased during a back to school close out sale for ten cents, and inserted all the parts from the locomotive. In this condition it will be stored till we complete several other projects currently in our shops.

While we were initially disappointed by the condition of our purchase, upon contacting the seller they made it right by offering us a partial rebate. We now look forward to the day we can start work on this locomotive and it leaves our shops in running condition.

One pleasant surprise came when we tested the original open frame motor. As expected when we applied electrons it did not start however by turning the amateur a few times by hand we got it freed up and it ran. We polished up, removed the oxidation, from the motor’s commutator and then doused the motor shaft at front and rear bearing with liberal amounts of LaBelle 108 oil and were pleasantly surprised that with lubrication the motor would start turning at .2 amps and 2 volts. After a few seconds of running we applied more power and the motor ran up to 10 volts without ANY noise or vibration. That was more than a little amazing as motors of this type and age seldom start below .4 amps and usually about 4 volts. We will keep this motor for those hard core open frame motor enthusiasts who will settle for nothing less, or more.

Now where is that V&T Book?

CWRailman

Return of the $5 Motor

10/17/2014

Over a period of years we have presented some motors we felt were adaptable to repowering locomotives. One important factor has been how it operates at slow speeds which translates into how slowly the locomotive will start from a dead stop. Another consideration has been costs. Here is a motor we recently found being sold by an Ebay seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291272764522?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
We ordered three of these motors and after testing them we have now placed an order for six additional motors. Click on this link to see a brief video of this motor strapped to our test mule and running through it’s paces at various speeds. The dual shaft design will be useful to those repowering small diesels, or wishing to place a flywheel on the back side. I believe this motor will produce satisfactory performance in most locomotives up to the USRA light Mikado’s.

While the seller provides some basic information on this 15mm x 20mm x 32mm, 9,200rpm flat can, dual shaft motor, one feature I wish to focus on is the long 14mm shafts which make this a really good candidate for repowering the PFM/United line of geared locomotives such as their Climax, Shay and Vulcan Duplex loco’s.

Check out the video to see it in operation.

Now back to the shops,
CWRailman

Testing and Qualifying Motors

1/3/2014

Data sheets are not always available for electrical motors. For non documented motors we must rely on the experience of other mechanics who document and share their experiences with various motors. There are many ways to test electrical motor output however, from an Engineers perspective, whatever method is used it should be implemented consistently in testing and comparing all candidates. In 2013 Ken Clark provided us with an invaluable listing of motor data that he compiled by applying the same testing process to all motors. This should be bookmarked by anyone interested in remotoring locomotives. Using Kens listing all you do is pick your size and see which motor has the best operational characteristics for your application.

Occasionally I mention that a motor exhibits characteristics I find to be either desirable for models or maybe not conducive to our needs. Several folks have asked me how I make that determination.

(Click on any image for a larger version)

Many years ago this device came into our shops. It was obtained when we bought a small collection of models from an estate sale. I have no idea who produced this device or when it was available. We actually used this tool for a while and it did provide some interesting numbers. However, based on our automotive experience we know that while a particular motor may produce notable performance numbers on a shops dynamometer, what really matters is it’s performance in a cars chassis. (If you check out our Remotoring of a brass Akane/Aristo Craft 2-8-0 you will see where our original round can motor, which produced desirable results on a test stand, did not produce the desired results when installed in the locomotive.) Our automotive experiences with car engines produced our preferred method of testing motors which we described in our 05/23/2013 Blog and motor test. Basically we strap the motor into our test mule chassis, which is a PFM/United UP 2-8-0, and hook it up to the gearbox/drive axle. We then apply DC power and find out at what volts and amperage the motor starts turning the driver and visually count the number of revolutions in 60 seconds. We then multiply that by 40 which is the number of teeth on the axle mounted worm gear. We then count the number of revolutions at 3 and 4 volts. (More voltage causes undue eye strain.) We do this a number of times.

I am a sucker for purchasing and testing any motor that appears to have desirable characteristics. This has resulted in now having over 100 replacement motors in our present inventory. Some work and some do not. As we have noted in many remotoring projects, our current favorite motor is the Mabuchi FF-180PH 8,900 rpm which we purchased in quantity years ago and is listed on Kens data sheet. We have installed over 60 of these motors in the past 8 years or so.

The first motor on the left is our favorite. The second motor from the left is the FK-180SH-17140 purchased from All Electronics that we reported on in our 05/23/2013 Blog and installed in the PFM/United ATSF 2-8-0 project. The short motor is the Nichibo PC130SF 15mm x 20mm x 25mm 6,000rpm flat can motor that we successfully installed last year in numerous small locomotives. The thin motor is the 12mm x 15mm x 28mm flat can motor procured from an Ebay seller a couple years ago and installed in the Ali San Shay in the Vintage Gem Birdey and a NWSL 20 Ton Shay as well as several other small locomotives. There are video’s attached to most of these projects so you can see the results of these remotoring projects.

Recently we purchased some Mabuchi FF-180PH-3048 (shown at the right) at the price of $5.50 From an Ebay seller. The seller indicated these were good for remotoring locomotives. While they are small enough to be installed in many different locomotives, our “in chassis” testing produced numbers that indicate these motors are about three times as fast as our favorite Mabuchi FF-180PH motor which causes us to classify them as too fast for locomotive installations. These motors would be good if high speeds were desirable.

By the way, while I have not ordered any, there is an Ebay seller who seems to be currently offering the desirable Mabuchi FF-180PH motor for about $7.95. These motors are getting difficult to find.

So what is in your locomotive?

Now back to the shops!

CWRailman

Truth in Advertising

12/31/2013

Some Ebay sellers have come under scrutiny for their less than honest descriptions and representations of items being sold. Sometimes the descriptions are completely wrong and when the seller is contacted they claim a lack of knowledge about the particular item being sold. However, occasionally we find a seller who is more than honest in their listings.

Along with about seven good quality images, this was how a locomotive I recently purchased was described:

· Cosmetic Condition: Excellent.
· Year of Production: 1970.
· Motor Type: Open frame
· Does it run?: Doesn't run very well. Very slow. Took a minute to even get to move. Had to manually turn the armature to kick-start it. After cleaning the wheels and letting it run for a few minutes, it might warm up enough to start running well, but a new motor may be in it's cards.
· Paint: Custom
· Brass Finish: n/a.
· Wheel Wear: Moderate/Dirty
· Lights: No
· Backhead Detail: No
· Drivers Sprung: No
· Box: Minor shelf wear, and a coupler of dealer stickers still attached.
· Foam: Excellent, but missing top piece.
· Spare Parts: PFM coupler pack.
· Paperwork: Yes.
· Decals: No.
· Comments: n/

Let me call your attention to the paragraph that begins with Does it run? This seller could have stated slow runner or not addressed the issue of performance at all and relied on the models other attributes to sell the model. However this seller took the time to explain in detail the not at all positive operational characteristics of the model. In this case, many hobbyists reading that explanation would take a pass on this item. In other words the honestly of this description may have hurt the sale. However, this is exactly the kind of locomotive we welcome into our California Western Loco and Car Rebuild Shops so this negative aspect was not a deterrent for us in acquiring this locomotive.

I have never met nor previously purchased from this seller and our only personal connection was when I spoke with him on the phone to consummate the financial aspects of this deal. However I wish there were more sellers out there like Chris Irek of Irek’s Toys and Trains who sells on Ebay under the name of Irekforpresident.

The first step was to clean the drivers. Solvent was first used to remove the paint overspray then a wire brush in my Dremel Mini removed the remaining oxidation from these drivers which were never plated.

This shows the original drive train configuration and the new flat can motor that will be installed. See our Projects page for additional Climax remotoring projects.

Location of the new motor is critical. Too far forward and it will come in contact with the inside of the cab. Too far back and the shaft will be too short for the worm. As is, the worm extends about 1/16 of an inch past the end of the motor shaft. NWSL bushings were used to mate the 2.0mm motor shaft to the 2.4mm i.d. of the worm.

The painter scraped the paint off of the bolster attached to the frame but forgot to do the same to the mating portions of the front truck This would not be an issue with the rear truck which is to be isolated from the frame.

I don’t want to suggest that this locomotive had not been serviced recently but…

By the way before all was said and done, this transaction resulted in us not only acquiring the locomotive listed on Ebay but another of similar quality and operating challenges. Both were reworked with new motors within three hours of their arrival in our shops. Thanks Chris! CHECK OUT THIS BRIEF VIDEO TO SEE HOW THESE LATEST AND LAST PROJECTS OF THE YEAR TO COME OUT OF OUR SHOPS NOW OPERATE.

Time to shut off the shop lights for the last time in 2013. Thank you all for visiting our WEB site.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

CWRailman

Celebrating our Second Anniversary

12/14/2013

Happy second anniversary to us. This month we celebrate being on line for two years.

The whole idea of our CWRailman Adventures in Model Railroading web site is to demonstrate basic modeling techniques and plant the seeds of ideas in modelers minds which hopefully motivate them to try similar projects.

Judging by the number of visitors, hits and downloads, the Mantua General, Bachman and Rivarossi 4-4-0 remotoring projects were by far the most popular articles we published this year. They also inspired others who built on those basic remotoring ideas and went much further with their projects than we did.

The first resulted into a 1880 era smooth running sound equipped 4-4-0.
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/

The second resulted in a one of a kind, probably never modeled before or since unique 4-4-0 that was built from a repurposed Mantua General.
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39876

In addition we followed along as another modeler used a set of the structure plans that we offered to build his not so “Quickie” structure.
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37923

Besides these three published projects I have received photo’s of several models in various scales based on our John Allen memorial Gorre & Daphetid box car build and a few emails showing additional remotoring of Mantua as well as Bachman and Rivarossi 4-4-0 locomotives.

Thanks to all of you who visited our site and additional thanks to those who wrote to offer suggestions or to share their projects. While our shops spent the majority of this year focused on locomotive remotoring and regearing projects, in the coming year we hope to share our progress in the completion of some long term structure builds and initiate several new builds complete with downloadable plans. Then again we may run into another “backroom sale” of orphaned locomotives similar to that which produced many of this years projects. Whatever, we plan to continue having fun and hope that you will continue visiting our site.

Here’s wishing you all a Safe and Happy Holiday Season and a prosperous New Year.

CWRailman

Sources for Flexible Coupling Tubing

11/8/2013

In Engineering we have a saying. “Reinventing the wheel” which we applied to those who attempted to reinvent something that had already been invented or successfully implemented. Usually their reinvention produces less than desirable results. (Click on any image for a larger version.)

A few years ago we had a brass locomotive in the shops that had been reworked by the owner. He had replaced the flexible tubing between the motor and gear box with a universal type coupling. He sent it to me because he said there was a bind in the mechanism. He was right, the bind was the universal coupling. (You may want to read this posting especially the paragraph about “universal joints” to find out why some universal couplings produce a bind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint Anyone who has used a universal on a rachet socket wrench and applied a lot of torque to it probably felt just such a bind.) I removed the contraption and replaced it with flexible tubing and the model operated smoothly. When I delivered the model he was impressed with the operation but then got angry when I told him what I did. He said, I told you it had a bind, why did you remove my coupling. I suggested he stop “reinventing the wheel” and enjoy his now smooth running locomotive and left it at that.

I said all that because over the past months several people have written to ask me where they can get the flexible tubing I show in many of the locomotive projects. While I had purchased my supply from a hobby shop many years ago, here is an on line store that offers the material at a reasonable price and in a quantity that will not take up much shelf space.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/rc_airplane_fuel_lines

There are two sizes applicable for our use. One is 3/32” id and the other is 1/16” id. Most of what I use has an ID of 1/16” for a tight fit onto 2.0mm motor shafts when mating to a 2.0mm gear box or a 2.4mm gear box and can also be used for the 1.5mm shafts.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/dub/dub221.htm

The 3/32” tubing can be used for 2.4mm shafts if you are just replacing the tubing between the original open frame motors which were normally 2.4 mm and the original gear box which usually is 2.4mm.

I should point out that I have discovered that not many of the airplane shops, at least none in my area, stock the 1/16” id tubing so you may have to mail order it. If the shaft of either the motor or the gear box is short, place a washer between the tubing and the motor or gearbox so the tubing does not rub on the housings.

By the way, like politics or religion or DC verses DCC I do not argue with those who wish to “reinvent the wheel” and use other types of couplings. I just choose to use that which is the least complex and proven to work well on thousands of brass models including all of my own.

Now back to the shops.

CWRailman

Doing it the MacGyver Way

8/7/2013

It’s 1:30 in the morning and we’re still working in the shops. I needed a 2.0mm dia rod to build a drive shaft for the 4-4-0 locomotive we have in the shop. There is no such material in our inventory that could be used for a drive shaft. But I am impatient so…..
(Click on image for a larger version)

I jammed the ball from a universal coupling onto a round tooth pick and cut the tooth pick flush with the ball joint. No glue was used. Then I cut the other end of the tooth pick and jammed it into the flexible coupling that was attached to the motor output shaft.

In this image of the mechanism in operation, blurred drivers and side rod, note that neither the motor nor the chassis are hard mounted to anything. The motor which is connected to the electrical leads is sort of floating on that matchstick box yet it is running relatively vibration free. NO this will not be the permanent solution but it did allow me, prior to shutting off the shop lights for the day, to see that the mechanism would operate smoothly. I’m already calling around to find 2.0mm shaft material. WATCH A BRIEF VIDEO OF THIS BENCH TEST.

Now back to the shops.

CWRailman

Remotoring/Regearing Large Size Locomotives

6/7/2013

Recently I received an email asking if we ever applied our techniques to large size locomotives. The answer is yes. For years I held a membership at the Scottsdale Model Railroad club in Scottsdale Arizona. (Find the link to this club and their new facility on my Home page.) Every Sunday between three and six of my models would run for long periods of time pulling good length and weight consists over the clubs then DC powered 2.5% running grade railroad. Since I no longer hold a membership in that or any other club and our logging themed shortline railroad is not really suited to large size locomotives our roster of the larger sized beasts has been substantially reduced. While many of our large size locomotives have been reassigned to other railroads, here is a representative sampling of some former projects we still maintain in reserve.

Balboa Southern Pacific MK-5 class Mikado 2-8-2. Custom paint and remotored with a 8900rpm flat can motor. Usually double headed with the consolidation noted below.

Balboa Southern Pacific C-9 class Consolidation 2-8-0. While not really a “large” locomotive, this consolidation features custom paint and an 8900 rpm flat can motor. When in operation at the club, it was usually double headed with the MK-5 Mikado to easily handle a 40 car freight consist.

Sunset ATSF 3125 class Mikado 2-8-2. This model was put together for operation on Harold Shelton’s Black Canyon RR. (A link to a multi media tour of that railroad can be found on my Home page.) While this model was sold by Sunset as a 3160 class Mikado, prior to painting we found by researching photo’s that as modeled, it is closer to the 3120 class of Mikado’s operated by the ATSF. This model features custom paint, 8900 rpm flat can motor and Sound Trax pre Tsunami sound system with custom sound chamber. At the time this model was being put together, the sound decoders were quite fragile and easily damaged by shorts. Therefore there are two decoders in this model. One for the sound and another less costly decoder to control the operation of the locomotive. If something shorted out we would loose the inexpensive decoder rather than an expensive sound decoder which at that time were selling for about $150. The sound install was handled by fellow modeler Harold Shelton who at the time was doing a lot of such work. We have since done a few installations of Tsunami systems in our own shops.

Westside Southern Pacific GS-8. Features custom paint and a Sagami round can motor. This smooth running quiet model has been weighted to optimize tractive effort and would run for hours on the club railroad pulling a 12-14 car passenger train.

MB Austin Southern Pacific P-5 Class Pacific. This model was acquired painted and lettered with this private road name which we never found time to change. This model was remotored with a 8900 rpm flat can motor and spent most of it’s time hauling a four car passenger train built from LaBelle wood kits.

PFM Sierra 2-6-6-2. The largest loco for our logging themed road, this model was painted over 35 years ago.

Over the years we have had numerous brass articulated locomotives on the roster such as several Akane cab forwards, four different USRA 2-8-8-2’s from several different importers, 0-6-6-0 and 2-6-6-2’s from Aristo Craft, PFM and Westside.

In addition we have had many long wheel base locomotives such as the PFM/United ATSF 2-10-2, 4-8-4 and 2-8-4 as well as both Balboa and Westside examples of the GS class of Southern Pacific Northern's. We have serviced and done upgrades to many of the PFM series of Southern RR, Pennsy and C&O locomotives. But, as I said earlier, we no longer have a need to maintain these models and they now have new owners.

No matter the size or complexity of the model, except for sometimes selecting larger or smaller can motors, in our large size locomotives we use the same time and operational proven techniques of remotoring and reworking locomotives that we employ on our smaller projects. The successful operation of these models for long periods of time under various conditions on both DC and DCC powered railroads has proven that we must be doing something correct.

Though we no longer take consignment projects from outside sources, by showing our projects we hope to inspire you to undertake one or more of your own without having to invest in a lot of expensive tools or equipment.

Enough of this talking. Time to get back to work in the shops.

CWRailman

Mabuchi FK 180SH-17140 Motor Test Report

5/23/2013

I recently took delivery of 10 Mabuchi FK 180SH-17140 motors which were purchased from All Electronics. Here is a link to the data sheet. The motors measure 15.4mm x 20.4mm x 32mm and at the time of purchase from All Electronics were selling for $1.75 each and $7 for shipping for a total of $24.50 for ten motors.
(Click on image for a larger version)

Upon arrival I compared these to my standard and current favorite motor the Mabuchi FF-180PP. I have installed over 40 of the FF-180PP motors in locomotives and have not been disappointed in any of these installations. (You can see video’s of some models repowered with this motor on my Projects page) However, the FF-180PP/PH series motors have become difficult to find so I wanted to see if the FK 180SH-17140 motor would give similar performance.

The test vehicles at automotive proving grounds are called “Mules”. This is the mule I use for testing motors. It was posed in this manner for this photo as a joke that I sent to someone. Normally for testing purposes the superstructure is not attached and the tender is in storage. During testing, the frame is blocked up allowing the drivers to float and the motor to be tested is clamped by rubber band (which can bee seen under the cab) to the frame and connected to the 40:1 gear box with a flexible coupling. Electrical leads are then attached to the motor and power is applied. I record the amperage and voltage readings at the point the drivers just start turning. I count the number of revolutions per minute and multiply that by 40 (the number of teeth on the axle mounted worm gear) to get the slow start speed. While this is not a highly technical method it allows me to make reasonable comparisons. The usefulness of this chassis is the main reason (at least this is what I tell myself) that this locomotive has not yet been painted and completed.

In chassis testing, the Mabuchi FK180SH-17140 motor produced amperage and voltage readings similar to the FF-180PP however it’s “start speed” the speed at which the drivers start rotating, is nearly twice that of the FF-180PP and at 6 volts the drivers are spinning faster than the model would be run. Remember, this is a no load sort of test. Under load and with friction from all the drivers etc it would run a bit slower but I seriously doubt you would ever need the upper rpm ranges this motor produces. Ironically a NWSL 1630 round can motor with a data sheet showing a 15,000RPM no load speed produced similar results.

Conclusion. This motor will provide an improvement in operation over the original open frame motor. It has good torque and will start a train smoothly however it will accelerate quickly as power is applied. In DC mode you probably will not need to go much further than 6 or 7 volts unless you are running a bullet train. If coupled with a decoder, the low speed operation can be enhanced by properly setting the “Torque compensation kick rate” and the “torque compensation kick strength” and I would allow a wide range between V start and V mid. These settings would provide a slow start and a lot of precise control between startup and mid range. I did note the rather short output shaft which may be an undesirable feature in some installations.

For the price I think this is a good buy.

Now back to the shops

CWRailman